Thursday, December 2, 2010

Hon2.0 - Massive update preview

Here is a Worthplaying preview of Heroes of newerth new patch with massive updates to every aspect of the game.

Here you have an Honcast interview with highlights listed below:

-Casual Mode
-What it entails
-Thought behind replacing EM with it
-PSR system for it

What will be purchasable
-How do you gain "goblin coins"
-How will this effect gameplay

-Map Editor
What can be made
-The interface
-How will maps be spread throughout

-How it works
-What they learned from first implementation

We were also able to get some very interesting information from [S2]Idejder concerning future patches as well including;

-Myrmidon (New Hero)

-New Hero every two weeks

-New item and what it does

You can download the mp3 file here:

S2 staff is doing an Q & A session, which you can read below:

Release Date?

From the Article: Barring any last-minute issues, Heroes of Newerth 2.0 is scheduled to go live on or about December 13, 2010. It is a free update to all players, so if you own Heroes of Newerth, you're getting the 2.0 update without any additional charge.
How much is X? And how long will it take me to grind for it?
No information on specific prices and no information on how long it will take to 'grind' an Alternate Avatar for a hero. Numbers are still being tweaked, so we don't want to give out wrong information!
If we think of more obvious answers I will throw them in this post.

Ask Away!

Answers so far...

Originally Posted by Evozer 
Will there be an option to avoid seeing/hearing other peoples skins and sounds?
There is no option for this at the moment.

Originally Posted by Soblane 
If you get coins for kills, why should I not ks everyone?
Coins are given for large kill streaks (more than Bloodbath) and Annihilation. The person that got these events are not given the coins, the whole team is.

Team effort!

Originally Posted by eNTe_eXe 
Do you have to watch Maliken running around as a pimp?
Are you really gonna change the minimap to a LoL style map, with those green ugly LoL-like dots?
The minimap is changing to be more interactive. You can hover over building to see their health, wards to see their time left, and heroes to see their health/mana/inventory.

Overall it's a vast improvement.

Originally Posted by SkullBoy 
Can we still play the game we know and love now? We don't HAVE to play this 'casual' game all the time?
Right, Casual is an optional mode just like any other.

Originally Posted by praylude 
Will we get coins retroactively?
No, coins will not be give for past wins. Only future wins using Matchmaking.

Originally Posted by Pyroglyphics 
Is Casual Mode replacing Easy Mode?
Not so much as Easy Mode is being removed.

Originally Posted by Credge 
Will these cosmetic changes have the potential to confuse what me about what hero I'm looking at? For example, in the Myrmidon video there is a hero I can't identify. It could either be Soulstealer, Nymph, or a new hero. Will this sort of confusion be something that happens once and never again?
We have tried to keep the alternative skins and avatars as close as possible to the original hero in tone, color, and size so that the confusion is at a minimum. So far we think we have done a great job and once you see a hero ingame it is obvious which one it is. The one 'farthest' away from this is the Scorpion, since it just has nothing to do with the original model but was highly requested.

Originally Posted by ShibuyaX 
Will 'Casual Mode' stats be included with our other stats (like EM currently is) ?
Sub-question: Will EM stats still be included with NM stats?
Casual Mode is going to be listed as separate stats for Matchmaking games.

Originally Posted by dmae 
1. Will coins be shared between normal account and sub account. If I unlock a skin on my main account will it be available on my sub account (and other way around)?

2. Will we be able to gain coins in no stats games?

3. Are you planning to record leaves in "no leavers" no stats games?
1. Yes, coins and everything in the store is globally shared through main and sub accounts.

2. You only get coins from Matchmaking games.

3. I don't think how nostats games work are changing.

Originally Posted by Dougleton 
Will there be a pebbles alternate avatar?
Not yet!

Originally Posted by l34Um1 
How does our PSR, our KDR, pretty much everything we already got translate into MM and the Gold System?
I believe that the MM stats are being reset, though your TMM might be influenced by your PSR slightly at the start so there is some separation. We are still deciding how initial placement will work.

Originally Posted by Blu3 
Are the models shown on the screenshots the only skins being released on 2.0 launch?
The artists just finished another avatar, so no

Originally Posted by zeNap 
First of all I would like to say that I like the ideas but then thing is that there is so MUCH in once.
I don't know why people are complaining about the shop? I think it's a nice way of earning some money etc.

What I don't like is Casual Mode, I think (from reading) it will be worse than EM.

Anyways, good work S2. Btw, have some questions.

1. Will there be a BreakyCPK announcer?
2. Will no stats games give you leaver?
3. Will Match awards come anytime soon?
4. You've said that taunt will be available for everyone, when is that? And will we have to buy it from the shop or ?
Casual mode is not like EM. EM rewards you with gold for doing nothing. In casual mode, this isn't the case.

1. No, but this is an interesting idea
2. We didn't change anything about how this works from the current system (so no).
3. Match awards will be integrated into the progression system.
4. Taunt will be an item in the shop.

Originally Posted by tpfaff 
How will you stop people from purchasing a new skin (or grinding it) and then releasing it as a mod?
We won't. In fact, we don't mind if you do. To go further on this, you don't even need to grind out the avatar, because it will already be on your computer when you download the patch. Like all mods though, it will be local. The fun part about alternate avatars is that other people can see them too.

Originally Posted by Galneryus 
The achievements will be implemented on HoN 2.0? If yes, they will count as a way to earn coins?
We do not have achievements in the traditional sense; instead, we will have career goals that you can achieve to make coins. These goals are recursive and can be obtained multiple times.

Originally Posted by Blu3 
Are the models shown on the screenshots the only skins being released on 2.0 launch?
Nope, there are more!

Originally Posted by aeternitatis 
Dear S2:

Will you give bonus coins to your loyal gold shielded customers who purchased the game before it was released, thereby saving you from bankruptcy and putting you on the road to the immense wealth you enjoy today?

Best regards,

Dear Aeternitatis,

We haven't decided anything about pre-purchased accounts yet. We will let you guys know.

Best regards,


Originally Posted by eLeven 
can you give any more info at all about how the map maker will work and be implemented?
We will release a larger post about the editor later.

Originally Posted by twizzR 
1. Will "Match Awards" be released with HoN 2.0 and will each award give any coins?
1. Sort of. There are 'awards' at the end of the match for certain things and these give you coins. Every match will reward you with coins (if it was a matchmaking match)

Originally Posted by MileyCyrus 
Idejder; I know you said that coins are shared across sub accounts, but if I have 2 accounts (paid the full $30 for each) will I be able to somehow send or gift my coins between accounts?

Also would be a good idea to do so if people want to gift coins to friends and such.
You will not be able to share purchases between your separate accounts, since they are not connected, but you will be able to purchase coins for friends/other accounts.

Originally Posted by eLeven 
how is the map editor going to work and will map submission be similar to dream hero creation?

Will a custom map mode ever be intergrated so maps dont need S2 aproval?

DREAM will encompass maps soon.

Originally Posted by BrownBanana 
Why did HoN choose to go this route? Will this mean with more funds we can expect faster hero addings?
A lot of people, including those on other forums, are making the supposition that we're doing this for financial reasons--this isn't true. We're doing this with two primary goals in mind:
1. Getting more people to play HoN.
2. Getting people who play HoN to play it more.
Everything in 2.0 has been designed around those two ideals.

Originally Posted by revan_xp 
I hope you test before patch this time
Both internal and the testers are doing a lot of it now! They are enjoying it thoroughly.

Originally Posted by shine 
How are the new model's animations? Majority of the players should be used to how a hero moves by now. Obviously if you've changed the model drastically (like magmus for example), their animation is going to be different. Basically it might conflict with something like animation canceling in attacks. Do they have the same delay between attacks and frames in their animations?
We didn't change any timings on attacks or spellcasts for teh alternate skins or avatars. They have the same cast points and delays as normal, so playing a new skin should not throw you off at all.

Originally Posted by qazqazqaz 
Now for the question. Idejder, can you shed a light on ways of getting coins, besides killstreaks?
Some examples:
Winning, Losing, getting a "Quick Victory", playing games consecutively, Bloodlust, Immortal, Annihilation, and you get bonuses when you hit certain lifetime marks for Total Wins/Assists/Wards Placed/Smackdowns.

There will probably be more added later.

Originally Posted by Kraphty 
1. Will TMM have game options? Or will it strictly be BP?
2. What are the new items being released?
3. How will the community created maps be implemented into the game
4. Is nigma making a voice pack?
1. It will have a choice of 5 game modes (AP, AR, SD, BP, BD) and you can 'thumbs down' two of them. You can also pick region and map.
2. Spellshards and Trophy Belt!
3. More information on this later.
4. Not that I know of...?

Originally Posted by The_Dunedain 
Will it be possible to have some of the cool features if you ain't rich?
I don't have time to read every information that have been told
Everything--and I mean everything--in the shop is purchasable through playing the game. This will never change. So just play the game a lot

Originally Posted by Soblane 
How many randoms (nons2) participated in the HON 2.0 beta?
Surprised there were almost 0 leaks.
A lot! We got some awesome feedback from them.

Originally Posted by Achtenfier 
So lets say a team of 4 wants to play a 5v5 matchmaking game (with +1 pub) is that possible or is it only n V n games solely?
That is possible. In fact, the matchmaking system will favor 4+1 vs 4+1 over 4+1 vs 5 or any other combination.

Originally Posted by Soblane 
I can't play the mode I actually want to play?
Sigh s2... sigh
There was a lot of debate about this, but what it came down to is queuetimes. We would rather a really fast queuetime and the mode be one of a few over just one mode but a queuetime up to many times longer. It is no fun to sit there and wait, but it is fun to play.

Getting people from click button -> into game is the most important part.

Originally Posted by BeastmanAIDS 

1. Has the MM queue been fixed so that Joining -> Disconnecting -> Joining -> Disconnecting -> Etc etc will no longer get you into a game faster than just Joining and waiting?
Yes. Players will load up almost all the map resources before they enter into the queue, and the group will only queue up for a match once all the other players in the group have finished loading.

Originally Posted by uberdabing 
Nome said that TMM will first try to match 5v5, then 5v4&1, then 4v3&2, etc. Does TMM weigh a team of five's average PSR as higher than five randoms? For example, a team of five 1700's is significantly better than five random 1700s, or even 2&3 1700s. Individually they may all be the same skill, but the team has inherent advantages such as better communication, designated roles for support/ganker/carry, etc.
The algorithm will always try to match up teams that consist of the same group make up (5 vs 5, 4+1 vs 4+1, 3+2 vs 3+2, etc), but it is just a preference the algorithm decides on based on the length of time the groups/teams have been waiting. There are no rules that teams with different group makeups will never be matched up against one another, just that it will do it's best to find a match with the same, or roughly similar group makeup for the first minute or two. After that, the algorithm opens up to allow other group makeups, and groups with a larger TMR spreads than it did in the beginning. Note that this also applies for inexperienced vs experienced teams. There are no rules governing that an inexperienced team will never play an experienced team, just that the algorithm will do it's best to place them into a match with another inexperienced team the first minute or two, and eventually place them into a match. The exact details of how we do the matching is confidential but the main goals were 1) make fair matches 2) keep queue times low.

All teams will contain a single group or a combination of groups, those groups are then combined together to form teams, and those team's TMR averages are based on the average of the group TMR's. This means a 3v3 teamA with large variation (such as a group with a 1300, a 1500 and a 1700) would come out to an average of 1500 and could potentially be matched against teamB (three 1500 players) with an average TMR of 1500. Obviously this is not our first preference when matching together two teams, but presently it is the way it will work. There isn't a really nice way to handle this situation without heavily increasing the amount of time teamA spends in the queue. We definitely don't want people to avoid playing MM games with their friends just because they are way better or way worse than their friend or because they know it will take a long time to find a match. That being said, I think you will find that on average most MM games are going to be very fair matchups that should result in some really fun games. Give it a chance first =) (I've always hated pubstomps). The bottom line is that that we will monitor this sort of thing and make adjustments as we get more data. If huge TMR variations between teams are causing significant gameplay issues then we can always account for the TMR variance among the team and factor that in when looking for matches.

As for whether or not the algorithm weighs the TMR for teams with different group makeups, there is current currently no such weighting. We have built in support to take other factors into account (KAD/XP per min/Games Played) but would only use those secondary stats in cases where there is a tie between multiple teams getting matched up. We did discuss whether or not we should weight the TMRs based on this, but have chosen not to for now till we have more data to support this. We will be logging and monitoring all matches that are played through the new system, and if we find the data lends credence to updating the TMR calculations a bit to create more fair game play, we will look further into making an improvement to the TMR calculation. Hopefully it goes without saying, but you can rest assured we will keep close eyes on the MM process and continue to tweak to ensure an optimal balance between fair matches and low queue times for everybody.

Disclaimer: Anything here is subject to change, I was just giving a rough writeup of what to expect and some basics of how the MM algorithm works. Enjoy. =)

Just got back from lunch, so sorry about the wait.

Originally Posted by SAFAD 
STILL ****ING IGNORED ????????????
btw! i'll get reported for infraction like this so please answer my questions +D
These are very technical questions, somewhat unrelated to 2.0, and unfortunately I can't answer them.

Originally Posted by Midnightoil 
So everyone EM % gets removed?

Originally Posted by BeastmanAIDS 
As an almost exclusively solo player I have a couple questions about Matchmaking, the 2nd being more important:

1. Has the MM queue been fixed so that Joining -> Disconnecting -> Joining -> Disconnecting -> Etc etc will no longer get you into a game faster than just Joining and waiting?

2. I may have just missed something, or more information might be being held back, but are gaining Coins the "only" perk being added to Matchmaking? I ask because while I think that will work very well to persuade people to play MM, I also think that it can only work for so long for a couple of reasons.

One is that if the price of items in Coins is too low, everyone will buy what they want and then stop using Matchmaking again. On the other hand though if the price is too high, most people will either just pay using real money or essentially say "screw it" and not even try.

The second reason, related to their first, is that just adding more items ad nauseam likely won't be enough to entice people to continue to play Matchmaking either. For a worthy comparison, see Team Fortress 2. Originally they added 1 hat for each of their 9 classes; these were purely cosmetic, but because there were so few of them everyone generally cared about them, to the point of even trying to cheat to get them. Since then, they've added 81672 (roughly) more hats to the game, and now very few people actually care about them anymore. To swing it back to HoN, how much motivation is there going to be to play Matchmaking to get Coins to unlock your 3rd or 4th Succubus skin?

Basically I'm just concerned that everyone is going to play Matchmaking for a few months and then stop. Again.
1. Matchmaking as a whole has been completely revamped. The problem you mentioned should not longer exist.
2. We will always be adding content to the shop, not to mention content to the game in general. There will be no shortage of items for you to spend coins on. What we're aiming for with the new matchmaking is to provide a generally more streamlined interface to play HoN. Our goal is for matchmaking to be the PRIMARY way to play HoN. Matchmaking stats will be the reliable stats vs. public stats. Matchmaking games should be the way you look for a game over the custom game list. Our previous matchmaking was riddled with problems--we admit that. With the new revamp, we're aiming to roll it out with all features intact, and hopefully it will be problem-free (fingers crossed).

Originally Posted by GreenAndGold 
Will we still have access to our career hon stat totals or is everything being wiped?
Only matchmaking stats are being reset.

Originally Posted by BobSaggot 
What is the desired goal of casual mode?

Are you trying to replace EM with something better - or are you trying to implement something completely different?
Casual mode is our answer to both players who are trying HoN for the first time, and for players who simply don't want the stress of playing a normal mode game. EM players should feel right at home, while normal mode players should still have a good deal of fun. Ultimately, we want to remove the stigma that comes with playing an alternate mode. There should be nothing to be ashamed of in playing casual.

Originally Posted by Kraphty 
another thing I am curious about is how will you select the skin you use. I'm sure you can swap skins and go back to default when you want to. (is this being added to the options menu?)
The hero selection screen allows you to choose and preview all available skins.

Originally Posted by Paulie 
First off, thx for the preview. I'm really looking forward to it. I especially love that we will be able to show our support by buying stuff from the in-game shop.

One question tho. You guys said that in the future SMACKDOWNs will be obtainable through other methods besides preordering the game. Will u put it in in-game shop or you have something else planned?

Thank you again and keep up the good work!
Taunt is indeed in the shop.

Originally Posted by ain 
The fact that AR is in MM invalidates it completely as a reasonable way to play this game.
Otherwise great job!
Just veto it if you don't want to play it! The goal of MM is to encompass all ways someone may want to play the game. There are plenty of dedicated AR players who would be left out if we didn't include AR.

Originally Posted by htns 
Will there be stability and bug fixes included too? Especially related to HoN crashing the computer?
Resource loading and unloading has been revamped, so hopefully that will solve a lot of issues.

Originally Posted by FUNTIK`666 
1 question, but PLZ answer it:

If i buy hero models, only me can see this new magmus? Or ALL PPLS will see this model when i will play magmus ? And can i use old model if i want ?
Everyone will see your alternate avatars. There is nothing you can buy from the shop that will only be seen by yourself. Everything is for everyone to see and enjoy.

Originally Posted by Shen 
Right, let me state my question differently,

will it be difficult to get a hold of the Taunt ability as a non-prepurchaser or will every second doofus have easy access?
It will be difficult in that you'll require a good number of coins to obtain it. There will be no other requirements. The golden shield, however, can never be obtained by anyone else.

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